Talk:Rumi

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Former good article nomineeRumi was a good articles nominee, but did not meet the good article criteria at the time. There are suggestions below for improving the article. Once these issues have been addressed, the article can be renominated. Editors may also seek a reassessment of the decision if they believe there was a mistake.
Article milestones
DateProcessResult
March 19, 2006Peer reviewReviewed
August 11, 2006WikiProject peer reviewReviewed
April 17, 2007Good article nomineeNot listed
Current status: Former good article nominee

Semi-protected edit request on 6 February 2021[edit]

193.81.136.93 (talk) 23:11, 6 February 2021 (UTC)


He is from Afghanistan if you don’t know. Balkhi means from Balkh and balkh is in Afghanistan 🇦🇫

Actually we have two sources stating otherwise. However, Balkh is mentioned as one possible birth place. --Kansas Bear (talk) 00:06, 7 February 2021 (UTC)

Did Rumi ever wrote in Turkish?[edit]

I doubt he even knew Turkish, if he did, he would have wrote in it. Considering he had poems in Greek and not in Turkish makes me think he didn't even spoke Turkish.

The article claims Rumi had Turkish poems, but i have yet to see a Turkish poem by Rumi no matter which source i look up. The citation for that claim seems vague, also. --AvatarofMahakala (talk) 05:52, 13 June 2021 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 10 July 2021[edit]

70.234.90.165 (talk) 02:51, 10 July 2021 (UTC)

Mulana was from Afghanistan and he has never been a Persian but and Afghan , Khurasan is the current Afghanistan, the capital of Khurasan was Balkh current Balkh province of Afghanistan and the history proves it. Iran was a part of Khurasan, current Afghanistan. This Article is a big lie, like many others.

Please do your homework before sharing any article publicly, and don’t give a fake culture advantages to your country.

Thanks

 Not done: please provide reliable sources that support the change you want to be made.   melecie   t 03:09, 10 July 2021 (UTC)

Most recent research on the Divan-e Shams-e Tabrizi.[edit]

Here you can find a most recent research on Divan-e Shams-e Tabrizi, in 2 volumes. They are in PDF format, and are donated to the public by the authors. In these volumes accents (اعراب) have been added to the words which will make correct reading and understanding of the contents much easier for those commanding Farsi. In addition difficult words have been translated to help. You are termite to download the contents to your devices should you want to.

Divan-e Shams-e Tabrizi Volume1 ديوان شمس تبریزی با اعراب و معانی کلمات مشكل جلد اول

Divan-e Shams-e Tabrizi Volume2 ديوان شمس تبریزی با اعراب و معانی کلمات مشكل جلد دوم

Wikipedia is conflicting it is own sources and Rumi's living descendants[edit]

According to Rumi's family tree[1] of 26 generations which spans over 800 years Rumi actually is not his name Rumi means from Rum which refers to Anatolia where he lived. His real name was Muhammed given by his parents but nicknamed Celalledin. He is referred to as Hz. Mevlana Celalledin Rumi which means Our Master Holly Celalledin that lives/d in Rum. Rumi's current family refers to "Hz. Mevlana was born on 30 September 1207 in the city of Balkh, Horasan, which at the time was inhabited by Turkish tribes; (Balkh, today, remains within the boundaries of Afghanistan). His mother Mümine was the daughter of Rükneddin, the “emir” (sovereign ruler) of Balkh and his father, Bahaeddin Veled, was “Sultanu-l ulema”(chief scholar). Their clash of opinion with Fahreddin-i Razi, one of his contemporary mystics, along with the probability of a Mongol invasion urged him to desert his hometown accompanied by his entire family. Their migration, via Baghdad, Mecca, Medina, Damascus, Malatya, Erzincan, and Karaman, ended up, on 3 May 1228, in Konya upon the invitation of Alaeddin Keykubad, the Seljuk Emperor."[2].

Another Wikipedia source confirms that when Rumi was born in Balkh 1207 he was born in the 'Khwarazmian Empire' [3] which was a Turko-Persian[4] Sunni Muslim empire. Khwarazmian Empire was a vassal state of Seljuk Empire. This comes directly from Wikipedia's own source. And again Turko-Persian, as referred to in Wikipedia [5], is the composite Turco-Persian tradition or Turco-Iranian tradition (Persian: فرهنگ ایرانی-ترکی‎) refers to a distinctive culture that arose in the 9th and 10th centuries in Khorasan and Transoxiana (present-day Afghanistan, Iran, Uzbekistan, Turkmenistan, Tajikistan, minor parts of Kyrgyzstan and Kazakhstan). It was Persianate in that it was centred on a lettered tradition of Iranian origin, and it was Turkic insofar as it was founded by and for many generations patronized by rulers of Turkic heredity. This information is all on Wikipedia and confirms Rumi's family's story regarding Rumi's origins. His mother was the daughter of the sovereign ruler which suggest Rumi had at least half Turkic heredity and his father was a chief scholar. Some resources suggest Rumi's father Bahaeddin Veled[6], is a descendant of Abu Bakr from his mother's side and paternally from Balkh. Balkh was at the time inhabited by Turkish tribes[7] which suggest Rumi was likely to have a mixed heritage of 75% Turkish and 25% Arab heritage. The living descendants[8] of Rumi's family acknowledged his Turkish heredity.

As writing in English does not make one English or American. Writing in Persian does not make Rumi Persian. At best Wikipedia could question Rumi's origin however deciding his origin through debates on the platform such an extend that contradicts Wikipedia's other entries is in danger of resulting in knowledge erosion.

Rumi is considered a Muslim Saint so out of respect his holly title 'Hz.' should also be added in front of his name for cultural appropriateness.

I would suggest Wikipedia extend Rumi's origin and also include his full name and respective Holly title. For example:

Hz. Mevlana Celalledin Rumi (Our Master Holly Celalledin that lived in Rum-Anatolia) was born on 30th September 1207 in the city of Balkh, Horasan[9], which at the time was part of the Khwarazmian Empire (Turko-Persian Sunni Muslim empire). Rumi's descendants[10] acknowledged his Turkish hereditary. Rumi might had a mix heritage of Turkish and some Arab hereditary[11], however there is an ambiguation by some resources that he might be Persian. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Alpsays (talkcontribs) 00:35, 14 November 2021 (UTC)

Thanks for sharing the Islam Ansiklopedisi material, which is quite interesting and worth exploring. Further secondary sourcing really needs to be found to confirm this though. With respect to your point about honorific titles, I'm afraid it is Wikipedia's style to omit these. See MOS:ISLAMHON for details. Iskandar323 (talk) 08:01, 14 November 2021 (UTC)
"Mevlana.net" isn't a WP:RS and self-proclaimed "descendants of Mevlana" have no authoritative information on Rumi himself; that's equivalent of saying that being a Sayyid (descendant of Prophet Muhammad) gives authority on analyzing Prophet Muhammad's origin or life. The claim that Balkh, "Horasan" was inhabited by Turkish tribes has no source; being ruled by turks doesn't make a land turkic otherwise Egypt and Bengal would be Turkic lands as well. Encyclopedia of Islam (source is in the article) also rejects Rumis supposed maternal descent from the Khwarazmshah as being unsupported by the dynasty's family tree. None of your sources linked here are used in the article itself so how can the article be "contradicting its own sources"? Rumi is referred to as Persian because his mother tongue was Persian and the area he was born in was (and still is) predominantly Persian. Nearly every authoritative source in the article states so and you've yet to provide any evidence to the contrary. --Qahramani44 (talk) 22:27, 14 November 2021 (UTC)